Isabelle Ciaravola, Étoile, Opéra de Paris: An Interview (Part 2), February 22nd, 2023

In case you have not read the first part of this interview, just scroll down the Blog to May 30th

(or click on “Content” and “Just for the record”)

„It is nice of you to say that, Ricardo. Just the other day I was reading one of my old interviews in which I said that even if I wasn't an Étoile, each time I went on stage, I had to dance like one! This was a must! And, Ricardo, I am sorry... I can talk a lot"

„And nothing could please me more, Isabelle!", I answer meaning every single word of what I had just said as she laughs loudly, pleased with this statement.

„We were talking about „Giselle"... I have had to wait to be an Étoile to get the role, and if I remember it correctly, this was my first full ballet role after I was promoted. I wanted to be Giselle so deeply just to be able to play the "Mad scene" at the end of the first act.

Same with „Romeo and Juliette" from Nureyev: I wanted to dance it for the third act, which I did for the first time when I was 39 years old. You know how difficult this version is! And the fascinating thing is that you have to act a lot, throughout the whole show. Fascinating. To be „in character" and stay „in character", expressing everything, this huge gamut of emotions without words, using every pore of your body. Especially during the third act, correction, starting with the end of the second act, with Tybalt's death. The first act was not really „my cup of tea", as I was just recovering from an ankle operation and did not feel quite 100% in shape for this challenge!"

Once more I catch myself thinking: isn't she just fascinatingly honest?

„I had some injuries", she continues, „Even a hard luxation (in fact six luxations, one every four years…) during which my knee cap just „went out" but there was no need for an operation.

„Please tell me something about „Suite en Blanc". I confess that this is my pure, personal curiosity!"

She ponders for a few seconds as if reviewing „a film on her mind" and just says"Yes, „Suite en Blanc", OK. But anything in special?"

„No, not really... it is a feeling. The piece is „so" Opéra Garnier to my way of thinking. When Jean-Yves Lormeau assumed the direction of the Ballet at „Theatro Municipal" in Rio de Janeiro, he staged it, for the first time in Brazil. It was a huge success, even though it was quite tough for him to work with a not-very-qualified Corps de Ballet, which we must also admit that, was miles ahead of the company's present condition. But I am distancing myself from my actual question: I would like to know of the difficulties of Lifar's work not technically but stylishly (Editor's note: Although I also consider that „Technique"), do you know what I mean?"

Once more she ponders for a few seconds and says „First, may tell I tell you a little story?" she smiles „I began working on this piece still as Corps de Ballet but the first time I had to do a soloist role it was for a gala in hommage to Claude Bessy (Editor Note: Claude Bessy, Étoile, Director of the Opéra Ballet school and Ballet Master at the Opéra de Paris), I was a première danseuse and was cast for the pas de deux, l'adage, but I was not supposed to do „La Flûte"... „

"Which fascinates me extremely", I have to say.

„ Then it happened so suddenly and I was cast at the very last minute to do also „La Flûte"! Sure a big thing for me to dance to both pieces in one evening! Tiring and challenging but I wanted to do it! But the reason I am telling you that. On this hommage, Sylvie Guillem was also there, dancing. I didn't know that she was looking at me from backstage. She saw me in both pieces and later she called me, on my mobile, to tell me that she had very much liked my work – this was for me a delightful surprise as I am also a huge fan of her work – and then proceeded to invite me to participate of a little tour that was being organized. This is somehow my personal connection with „Suite en Blanc", which came immediately to my mind as you asked about it... She was the first to ask me, from the whole company, to participate in that tour. And this was really something very nice! We danced a lot of „Suite en Blanc" in a three-bill-evening which consisted of it, „Boléro" and „L'Arlesienne", a great Programme: Lifar, Béjart, and Petit in a fascinating one single evening„

„Fascinating it is. For sure. You see, doing my preparation for the interview, I found somewhere – don't ask me it was on youtube, Facebook, whatever a video of yours telling us a story about the first time, as a child, that you put on point shoes... and how disappointed you were that you had to tie the laces on the back side of your leg and not in the front. I found this such a sweet story... and so „connecting". All these feelings are caused by a simple story-telling. I do believe that this kind of emotion is what builds a stronger „customer", and „reader relationship". „Boléro" and „L'Arlesienne", a great Programme: Lifar, Béjart, and Petit in a fascinating one single evening„Do you know what I mean? For many people, they may not be important, but for me, they are because they tell so much about a personality... As you see, I also talk too much", I have to laugh, „and all this was just a very long „preparation" to formulate my next question: You are a great story-teller, be it „Manon", „Giselle", „Tatjana", „Odette or Odile" and even though I think that I know the answer to this question I have to ask because it occurred to me going deep into my research. You surely love telling „stories", and you love „being in character" but how are your feelings while performing more „modern", „contemporary", and „abstract" choreographies? Be it Balanchine, Jerome Robbins, Forsythe... But I dare to think that in such abstract „parts", not „roles", you are also telling a story. Do you create a story in your mind for such pieces?"

She smiles a pleasant „knowing" smile, very similar to the Cheshire cat's from „Alice in Wonderland" and adds „Thinking of Mahler's „The third symphony" by John Neumeier... „

In a hurry, I am once more so curious that I, unintentionally but impolitely interrupt her and ask „in which you played the Angel, right?"

„Yes, and I just can go back to what I have said before: It is because of the music. I write a dialogue as if I were speaking to the music. And, most important, the partner... the connection, the eye-to-eye interrelation, the total trust... I cannot be a robot, I need these „real" feelings to be able to give myself to the role, or „part" if you prefer. What is difficult in Dance, because of so many factors involved, is to be able to let yourself go... „

„You said today that sometimes you felt unsure, insecure about technical issues, etc."

„Yes, my whole life I felt like that. Lack of confidence."

„ But exactly hearing all that, I can only say that this is THE factor that is beautiful about you and your Art. This is why you can connect so well with the audience. So human... "

„Think of the word fragility! At the same time being fragile and strong as a dancer!"

We had, at last, come to a point to which I thought – YES! This is the kind of talk that I like: Emotional, Honest, and open. And as Shirley MacLaine's character in „The West Side Waltz" would say, I just thought: „And now we're cooking!", And I was right. I just could add „You see, when I am sitting in an audience I expect this closeness of spirit to the ones that are on stage. This connection of heart and soul. Just like this it is possible to establish this „proximity"! And if there's no emotion in the play... An example: there's a dancer here in Vienna who is technically (in the circus-like side of the description). He turns I do not know how many pirouettes, he jumps and does everything one would like to do. But there are no emotions. Once I asked him „Aren't you ever afraid of going on stage?". He answered me, cooly. No, never. I just go. And saying that he sounded to me as if he was pressing the button to a lift, or taking a bus, or ordering a Cheeseburger at MacDonald's. No emotions at all."

Isabelle looks at me, somehow „digesting" the statement I had just made, and says, nearly sadly „For me, it was always easier to dance scenes where drama was involved into. I'll say this quickly. My private life was not always quite easy. And this made my being on stage much more as I had the opportunity to work on many emotions even though I was never very confident and, add this to the list, scared! But this gave me the power to be able to work on it as if I was playing with it inside of me"

„Beautiful, Isabelle. Beautiful. This Interview, as I always aim, is not about the „Dancer", it is about the „Person". Because only if a „Person", a real human being exists behind the Artist, the Dancer will be able to communicate with the public.

„Isabelle, another difficult question, especially because of your huge repertoire, and not many people can talk about that, but could you tell me a selection of your all-time favourite roles?"

„Alors, this is a difficult question. We had the same question with Mathieu (Editor's Note: Mathieu Ganio, Étoile, Opéra de Paris) and we answered both the same: „Manon", which we danced together. The music. Especially the last pas de deux.", she smiles wickedly and confesses „You know, I wanted to do „Manon" just because of the last pas de deux, to be there in this most dramatic scene, dying... „

„It is such a work of Art", I answer in fact, quite emotionally.

„If I'd have to choose only one role, it'd be „Manon"!"

„Let us not be so strict, you can choose five if you want!", I add jokingly.

„OK", her eyes shine bright while saying this, „We have „La Dame aux Camelias", Tatjana in „Onegin", of course, because I was promoted to Étoile and had my farewell performance just after playing her, and on both occasions with Herve (Editor's Note: Herve Moreau, Étoile, Opéra de Paris) - although I cannot leave unmentioned the names of Mathieu and Evan MacKie – La Bayadère from Nureyev and, then, „Romeo and Juliet" - Oh, just the music by Prokofiev is worth it all!". But there are many others -among them, especially, Roland Petit's pieces…

„Nureyev's version, I guess, not MacMillan's!"

„Yes, from MacMillan we only have here at the Paris Opera „Manon" and „Mayerling", but to be honest I am not so fond of „Mayerling"!"

„We think exactly the same, Isabelle", I add, „Mayerling is not „ballet language " for me: if you have to go through history books just to understand the so many characters, then you do not need a ballet – you can buy a history book about Rudolph and Vetsera and Empress Elisabeth and Franz Joseph..."

„Yes, too many characters... I love the film", she says, „with Catherine Deneuve and Omar Shariff!"

„You should watch, Isabelle, a very old version which I think was made in 1937, with Danielle Darrieux and Charles Boyer..."

„You danced a lot with Mathieu, haven't you?"

Her face shines as she says „Yes, he is one of my favourite partners! We had the chance to dance many times together, such as "La Sylphide", "La Dame aux Camélias", "Onegin", "Giselle", "La Petite Danseuse de Degas" from Patrice Bart, some pieces from Forsythe, and, as well, of course, „Les enfants du Paradis" created on us by José Martinez -a marvelous experience!"

I open my mouth nearly as if I was in shock „Les Enfants du Paradis" was made into a ballet? I did not know that!"

She is surprised. „I think it was made in 2007! And I think you can find it on youtube... „

„This reminds me of a video that I have seen, also on youtube, in which you are called „Une tragédienne" and I thought it so appropriate. You could, you can do this. Create this illusion. That is Artistry. This control of emotions. Just in the right dosage. So much more „Manon" than „Kitri"! But we talked about your „favourites", about „La Tragédienne" and about many other issues. It is time to ask again a difficult question – and this is a hard one, which I would understand in case you do not want to answer it not to offend anyone. But are there any roles that you did not like or would never care to dance again?"

„Not so many ones. There is one, I won't mention. It's a contemporary one. It was very difficult for me. Not technically but because of the music. The music was bad. And I felt so bad doing it. That music. I honestly hated it."

„One of the last questions. I am beginning to make at last dancers interested in reading again – something that the younger generations do not do – and could take so much advantage of it... we used to research so much „a few years ago"... „

Straight away she says: „When I had to dance „Onegin", „Manon", „La Dame aux Camelias" we had to research a lot to create the characters according to the story, to the times in which the story took place. I was reading books, researching movies, and through everything, I could put my hands into to get information. It was like „cooking". For example; you have one recipe but you add a bit more of this or the other spices, add a special sauce and then you create something that is „you", that suits your taste, your palate much better... „

Beautiful.

We continued for a long while exchanging information about dear friends in common, even having a good, heartily laugh at Cynthia Harvey's inspiration to create her Gamzatti in Makarova's „La Bayadère", which was Joan Collins' „Alexis Carrington " (Editor's Note: from the TV series „Dynasty") and which is published here on „attitude" in an interview which I have done with Cynthia. The interesting thing is that Isabelle, saying „Why not?" also told me that, watching movies, plays, pictures, statues, art galleries, reading books, and listening to music, she learned how to „select" and „use" things, gestures, inflections, emotions that could be suitable to her and added them to her work. Analyzing them. The puzzle was taking its form. Most organically. Simply.

She told me that while working on Roland Petit's „Le Rendez-Vous", she noticed that she had to watch more musical comedies, to „get" the role.

But the final question for this first day was: „Just „get back in time" and think of a role, one that you were learning for the first time, one that you perhaps did not know so well. Think of your creative, learning process. This could be so helpful to younger dancers who have a much more mobile telephone-like relation to dance, who have yet to realize their emotions and how to canalize them into something innovative, inventive, original, and most of all, visionary. Think perhaps of your „Manon", but I am meaning the one on Neumeier's „La Dame", which I consider one of the most brilliant ideas ever to be put dramaturgically in a ballet. Not characters in a book given by Armand to Marguerite but as characters in a play which will „live" with them throughout the story... in pas de trois, pas de quatre... „

„I have to say something before I answer that. We were talking about technique. The craziness of turning, jumping, etc. There is but not enough work being done with arms, the breathing, the subtleties – because they seem to have turned into something so less important than they are. If you have to create someone human, you must get a bit further than the simple squareness, the academic side of classical training. It is so hard, so terrible while giving class, to take the minds of the students out of this, to change their way of thinking. This is just the first part of what I wanted to say. Alors, but the building of the character, I had the chance – because I believe that when you're younger it is more difficult – to be promoted to Étoile at 37 years old, I was „old", quite old (Editor's Note: I do not agree with that), so I was clear to me that I had worked for many years analyzing, creating, thinking of the characters I was playing than being „just" a technician. The more the characters got to be more difficult, the more the challenge excited me. Not „Odette/Odile" but Manon, Tatjana, and even Giselle, you have a different stage of life and experience while on the first act and you are forced to change in each act, and this is connected with the passing of time, with the gaining of experience. The characters turn into other persons which have turned into more mature ones. It is such a nice challenge to arrive on stage, for each act, just adding experience to the character you are playing. They turn out to be a part of you."

To be continued on June 26th.

Ricardo Leitner

a t t i t u d e